Comments on The Peaceful Self.com: To Experience the Opposite of "Meaningful".......C...

Mary Poppins! I likey.

2009-12-23T01:22:02.608-05:00

Mary Poppins! I likey.

"Calling it love seems closest; it doesn'...

2009-12-22T14:40:47.150-05:00

"Calling it love seems closest; it doesn't fit a word; words and concepts are what we have to work with in this forum."

Actually, it seems to me calling it "love" could not get one farther away.

"Neutrality could also accurately label what I'm trying to describe...it's the sort of thing that isn't need returning or defining or confining, either."

HA! Looks like you've accurately anticipated my next post......damn!

"There's no way to describe it; except to say it isn't limited in any way, not like the love most people mean when they talk of love."

Then don't call it "love"! Sheesh, what kinda guru are you, anyway???? (teehee)

I've had enough of this male-energy, ivory tower, detached tough love crapola for awhile!

Hey, waitjustadogoneminutehere! You started it.

"Anyway, lots of love to you, and Merry Christmas, you old Grinchie-poo."

Same to you, Mary Poppins!

Loving it all and being it all - understanding it ...

2009-12-22T13:41:56.406-05:00

Loving it all and being it all - understanding it as such and trying to label it with some word or concept or other that seems to fit isn't easy! Calling it love seems closest; it doesn't fit a word; words and concepts are what we have to work with in this forum. Neutrality could also accurately label what I'm trying to describe...it's the sort of thing that isn't need returning or defining or confining, either.

There's no way to describe it; except to say it isn't limited in any way, not like the love most people mean when they talk of love.

Anyway, lots of love to you, and Merry Christmas, you old Grinchie-poo. I've had enough of this male-energy, ivory tower, detached tough love crapola for awhile! I'm off now to give the hamster a kiss.

"And I love it all, Mike, I truly love it all...

2009-12-22T06:27:10.922-05:00

"And I love it all, Mike, I truly love it all, and am it all."

Aha...there it is!

The world doesn't want your "love" Suzanne, since that obviously asserts an opposite.

For change to occur, you need to stop "loving it all" since egos have do not realize that love is not a concept. Less egocentric love and we might finally get some results. LOL!

I would consider neutrality....
mikeS

Oh Mike, I know it's a bummer, but if all the ...

2009-12-22T03:50:58.274-05:00

Oh Mike, I know it's a bummer, but if all the hunger in the world were alleviated, and all the disease and war and inhumanity eliminated, it would turn into the story of

1) Rampant overpopulation and a new cause of suffering and

2) The inability to know what humanity is, if there is no inhumanity to compare it to.

What we seem to choose is always the same thing, in another guise. We muddle along, not knowing what the perfect answer is. We stumble, fall, err, triumph, help, love, hate and harm. We struggle with mental illness, where choice seems even more elusive than is usual. We do our best, or give up. We are bursting with energy or beleaguered by apathy and depression. Afraid, we lash out; contrite, we reach out. And I love it all, Mike, I truly love it all, and am it all.

I would imagine that non-duality would choose to &...

2009-12-21T07:29:12.664-05:00

I would imagine that non-duality would choose to "do something about it." In fact, there would be no other choice, but that...meaning that no choices exist...and no reason to choose

How could it be otherwise?

Unless, of course the ideology is used to bypass the 'pageantry' of inhumanity, which then makes it NO different than any other religious ideology.

Another copycat...
mikeS

You and I have everything we need to know of hunge...

2009-12-21T04:47:57.452-05:00

You and I have everything we need to know of hunger, understand it, research it, empathise with it, and do something about it, and choose to do so or not. This is the pageant of life.

"I think it's bloody marvelous, we have e...

2009-12-20T08:28:26.664-05:00

"I think it's bloody marvelous, we have everything we need...whether we think so or not."

Well...some people have no food...

But I won't "quibble"
mikeS

I think it's bloody marvelous, we have everyth...

2009-12-20T02:35:49.074-05:00

I think it's bloody marvelous, we have everything we need...whether we think so or not.

Quibbling??? No, my dear, only questioning.... M...

2009-12-19T09:32:40.505-05:00

Quibbling???

No, my dear, only questioning....

My apologies, but I question everything and that does often appear in the guise of quibbling....

...but I have little control over this, since it just "arises."
mikeS

Hey Mike...quibbling over labels. Which is fun to...

2009-12-19T06:07:58.841-05:00

Hey Mike...quibbling over labels. Which is fun too.

Hey Mike~ Mystery to me simply means the unknown ...

2009-12-18T17:34:31.090-05:00

Hey Mike~

Mystery to me simply means the unknown or perhaps even the unknowable and not having to place any necessary meaning...or even meaningless...on what is experienced or witnessed. I don't know if one can place any story to Mystery, because in doing so it is attaching rhyme or reason where it may or may not exist. I simply don't know. But even if one were to subconsciously attach story to mystery, it wouldn't make much difference, it is still mystery, still unknown. Once it is known, it no longer remains a mystery.

I forgot about the snotty guy, though. I forgot there is always a worm in the bud, a snake in the tree, the cuckoo in the nest.

What a Cabaret!

Blessings~

Nahnni, My response would be that it impedes the ...

2009-12-18T16:16:49.121-05:00

Nahnni,

My response would be that it impedes the Mystery of things once that story begins."

But isn't "mystery" just another story? And if it's a story one believes in, wouldn't one see mystery everywhere they look and if they did, would that be better than 'knowing"?
Just wondering is all...

"On one level, I don't see as it makes any difference. On another level, humankind seems determined to appropriate either/or."

Maybe not...I suppose when 'meanings' cause so much havoc, a wonderful story is to consider the possibility of holding no meanings whatsoever. I can only imagine the glorious suffering and sacrifice to the ego-self, when it tries to live meaninglessly (tried it once, but didn't get to far, Ha!)

"I suppose if we all could have the psychotic breakdown, we could be merry in our dissolved ego bliss sitting on a park bench and eating bread crumbs with the pigeons in the NOW, and none of it really would matter."

But, sure enough, someone will be "sitting on a park bench, eying little girls with bad intent, snot running down his nose..."

Sorry....couldn't resist...
mikeS

No One, "...just living is fraught with intr...

2009-12-18T15:59:00.000-05:00

No One,

"...just living is fraught with intrinsic meaning, outside of any extra added story."

Hmmm... but isn't "just living" actually the "extra added story"? Can one engage with NO stories? Of course, to engage with no story is also a story...But a story with no outcome, no goal, no rewards...no death and no living...

..might be fun to play! (as long as we don't take it too serious)
mikeS

Hi Mike~ "...what if all the important meani...

2009-12-18T03:06:38.189-05:00

Hi Mike~

"...what if all the important meanings you superimpose upon your experiences do nothing more than impede experiencing what is beyond your egocentric narcissistic meanings?"

This is an important consideration. What is possible in the experience before the story begins? My response would be that it impedes the Mystery of things once that story begins.

"When you’re through superimposing your egocentric meanings upon the 'world' (that you experience), what will you 'have'? What will “you” experience?"

Mystery, I think.

"Eckhart Tolle claims to have experienced ego transcendence. Nevertheless, it was only after running his experience through the ideological meat grinder of past interpretations, that he was able to apply an egocentric interpretation that helped him make sense of what it WAS …

…but is that what it IS?"

Quite perfect.

"First, the ego injects meaning into the world. It then has an extraordinary experience, not easily identifiable from the normal menu of world-based interpretations. Nevertheless, it looks to the meanings already in the world to aid in making sense of its extraordinary experiences."

There is an inclination to grab on to the already existent frame of reference. But does an extraordinary experience have to make sense? Could it be that once one stops asking "Why?" and then answering "This is why" that one can deeply allow the Mystery to exist? Can there be threshold places, "...neither here nor there, neither up nor down, neither real nor imaginary? (Thomas Moore)" where neither meaning nor meaninglessness require separation and analysis?

"In fact, an external world need not exist at all (if it even does!) for the ego to superimpose meaning."

LoL, the matrix of this online experience is proof of that!

"If the meaning of all your experiences are egocentrically determined then, subsequently, this can only mean that the world you experience is meaningless until you give it meaning."

On one level, I don't see as it makes any difference. On another level, humankind seems determined to appropriate either/or.

I don't know. I suppose if we all could have the psychotic breakdown, we could be merry in our dissolved ego bliss sitting on a park bench and eating bread crumbs with the pigeons in the NOW, and none of it really would matter. Maybe that's ok too. But then you've got the guy who is going to say, "Hey, that pigeon looks different from the others. He must be a special pigeon, or a deviant pigeon," and then the next guy will say, "Maybe it is a sacred pigeon with a special message" and on and on and on.

Great post.

Blessings~

Beautifully well put, Mike. It's the stories ...

2009-12-18T01:23:46.525-05:00

Beautifully well put, Mike. It's the stories in time, with cause and effect, that are meaningless, though engaging; just living is fraught with intrinsic meaning, outside of any extra added story. Trapped by dualistic language, you could say it's all "good", or it's all worthy. When the ego stops identifying with its story, and just lives, that's probably a good start, and end. But it's difficult, if not impossible, to describe simple being, although it's always the case. It's the difference between worshipping the fountain and drinking the water, someone said, and that description is as good as any.

Love your essays!